Wednesday, August 30, 2006
On Loss...
...
lost /lɔst, lɒst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lawst, lost] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. no longer possessed or retained
2. no longer to be found
This is from an online dictionary. For the most part LOST means unable to find. It is different than MISPLACED.
When we surrender children to adoption, we LOOSE our right to parent them.
I know full well the difference between loosing my right to parents, see or know or child but being able to maintain hope that someday we might be reunited...and loosing that same child again PERMANENTLY to DEATH!
That is why when other call themselves "mothers of loss" hurts me terribly. because any loss to adoption has the POSSIBILITY of reunification until either of the parties is DEAD.
I am also not a "mother of loss" because I am mother to ALL of my CHILDREN!
There are LOTS of words that strike people in different ways. Some of us do not like the word surrendered, some don't like relinquished. Both are the legal terms for what happened.
I also do not the word bastard as it does not apply to my situation. I was legally married to my first (surrendered) daughter's father. But I UNDERSTAND exactly why BN named their group what hey did and I support that. The do NOT however demand that everyone call the bastards!
Some people don’t even like the word adoption. Some don’t like the terms “adoptive mother” and only use adopter. Some mothers are CONTENT with their decision. Brenda Romachik feels she did not loose, or have her child “taken’ from her, she is comfortable using the word ‘entrusted’ to describe her experience. There are lost of differences amongst us and our experiences. To become language police and demand just one word is a choice. It is a very limiting choice.
The rest of us, through we have our preference likes and dislikes, and words that may even make us cringe (or in my case cause physical illness) none of us DEMAND it of others in our presence!!! I ask as a kindness that people do not use the word “loss” lightly around me. It is a very sensitive subject for me. But I would never demand it at a conference I was organizing, nor would I edit out of others written comments. I posted comments here that use the terms that are very uncomfortable for me, because if I didn’t we wouldn’t have this discussion. I use it as an opportunity to educate.
If the object is to EDUCATE…BJ Lifton just wrote to me asking why you are opposed to the “b” word. So, apparently she is still clueless and has not been educated by being asked not to speak. I ask again, why the conference organizers waited until August 27th to ask BJ not to speak? Especially when I brought it to Joe’s attention in April that BJ uses the “B” word….
As for BJ Lifton she has never and never would refer to herself as a “birthchild” – this is where your arguments get into absolute ridiculous. Each adopted person has the RIGHT to think of and address their parent – by birth and through adoption – as they personally choose to. The vast majority of adoptees I have ever been in contact with in my life – which is a considerable number -
use the word “mother” to describe their adoptive mother who raised them. That is often hurtful to a lot of mothers who surrendered.
I also DO know individuals have been reunited with children who lovingly call them Mom, and that’s very sweet and nice. But the MAJORITY do NOT! And no matter what you DEMAND or want to call yourselves that is not going to change, and you are going to always to deal with backlash from adoptees who vehemently will resent calling a person who abandoned them Mother and not giving that respect to the person who raised and nurtured them – irregardless of how YOU felt about having your child “taken” or “stolen” from you.
The more you alienate, the less support you have for your goals.
lost /lɔst, lɒst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lawst, lost] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. no longer possessed or retained
2. no longer to be found
This is from an online dictionary. For the most part LOST means unable to find. It is different than MISPLACED.
When we surrender children to adoption, we LOOSE our right to parent them.
I know full well the difference between loosing my right to parents, see or know or child but being able to maintain hope that someday we might be reunited...and loosing that same child again PERMANENTLY to DEATH!
That is why when other call themselves "mothers of loss" hurts me terribly. because any loss to adoption has the POSSIBILITY of reunification until either of the parties is DEAD.
I am also not a "mother of loss" because I am mother to ALL of my CHILDREN!
There are LOTS of words that strike people in different ways. Some of us do not like the word surrendered, some don't like relinquished. Both are the legal terms for what happened.
I also do not the word bastard as it does not apply to my situation. I was legally married to my first (surrendered) daughter's father. But I UNDERSTAND exactly why BN named their group what hey did and I support that. The do NOT however demand that everyone call the bastards!
Some people don’t even like the word adoption. Some don’t like the terms “adoptive mother” and only use adopter. Some mothers are CONTENT with their decision. Brenda Romachik feels she did not loose, or have her child “taken’ from her, she is comfortable using the word ‘entrusted’ to describe her experience. There are lost of differences amongst us and our experiences. To become language police and demand just one word is a choice. It is a very limiting choice.
The rest of us, through we have our preference likes and dislikes, and words that may even make us cringe (or in my case cause physical illness) none of us DEMAND it of others in our presence!!! I ask as a kindness that people do not use the word “loss” lightly around me. It is a very sensitive subject for me. But I would never demand it at a conference I was organizing, nor would I edit out of others written comments. I posted comments here that use the terms that are very uncomfortable for me, because if I didn’t we wouldn’t have this discussion. I use it as an opportunity to educate.
If the object is to EDUCATE…BJ Lifton just wrote to me asking why you are opposed to the “b” word. So, apparently she is still clueless and has not been educated by being asked not to speak. I ask again, why the conference organizers waited until August 27th to ask BJ not to speak? Especially when I brought it to Joe’s attention in April that BJ uses the “B” word….
As for BJ Lifton she has never and never would refer to herself as a “birthchild” – this is where your arguments get into absolute ridiculous. Each adopted person has the RIGHT to think of and address their parent – by birth and through adoption – as they personally choose to. The vast majority of adoptees I have ever been in contact with in my life – which is a considerable number -
use the word “mother” to describe their adoptive mother who raised them. That is often hurtful to a lot of mothers who surrendered.
I also DO know individuals have been reunited with children who lovingly call them Mom, and that’s very sweet and nice. But the MAJORITY do NOT! And no matter what you DEMAND or want to call yourselves that is not going to change, and you are going to always to deal with backlash from adoptees who vehemently will resent calling a person who abandoned them Mother and not giving that respect to the person who raised and nurtured them – irregardless of how YOU felt about having your child “taken” or “stolen” from you.
The more you alienate, the less support you have for your goals.
# posted by Senior Mom @ 8:58 AM 
Comments:
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Don't have any idea who you are "kippa herring" but I sure agree.
Joe Soll has known BJ Lifton for 30 years. He has read her books. She has spoken at innumerable conferences, some he has arranged.
He KNOWS she uses the "b" word in her writing and her spoken word.
And I brought it to his attention again in April of this year. Why did it take this long - long after it was announced that she WOULD speak - to have her removed???
Why does she still have no clue why there is an objection to the use of that word?
Is exlcusion education?
If you limit a conference to only those who agree with your limited point of view - who is benefitting?
And...will adopteee Edward Albee toe the line? If not...what will be done to/with him???
Joe Soll has known BJ Lifton for 30 years. He has read her books. She has spoken at innumerable conferences, some he has arranged.
He KNOWS she uses the "b" word in her writing and her spoken word.
And I brought it to his attention again in April of this year. Why did it take this long - long after it was announced that she WOULD speak - to have her removed???
Why does she still have no clue why there is an objection to the use of that word?
Is exlcusion education?
If you limit a conference to only those who agree with your limited point of view - who is benefitting?
And...will adopteee Edward Albee toe the line? If not...what will be done to/with him???
"The more you alienate, the less support you have for your goals".....so why be so very critical of people who are stiving for the same goals???
You said you "100% agreed" with me..but then you agreed that it was wrong to use the B term..yet that was the defense of your thread to begin with.
AS for "of loss" are their other mothers like yourself that find this hurtful? Just asking since I do use it all the time..and I would assume, like many involved in specific issues. that we all try to educate and see what others are saying..so I would think that some would find their way over to my blog via a google search and share that aspect of education. And that has never happened. So I wonder..just making a point for points sake?
As for why this happened when it did? Perhaps becasue it was hoped that the conference and Lifton ould come to an agreement? I would say the straw that broke the camels back was when she flat out stated that "I dont care" regarding what women feel appropiate to be called.
That's not too much kindness displayed.
You said you "100% agreed" with me..but then you agreed that it was wrong to use the B term..yet that was the defense of your thread to begin with.
AS for "of loss" are their other mothers like yourself that find this hurtful? Just asking since I do use it all the time..and I would assume, like many involved in specific issues. that we all try to educate and see what others are saying..so I would think that some would find their way over to my blog via a google search and share that aspect of education. And that has never happened. So I wonder..just making a point for points sake?
As for why this happened when it did? Perhaps becasue it was hoped that the conference and Lifton ould come to an agreement? I would say the straw that broke the camels back was when she flat out stated that "I dont care" regarding what women feel appropiate to be called.
That's not too much kindness displayed.
You say: So, apparently she is still clueless and has not been educated by being asked not to speak. I ask again, why the conference organizers waited until August 27th to ask BJ not to speak? Especially when I brought it to Joe’s attention in April that BJ uses the “B” word….
Sure is alot of triangulating going on here..you are speaking for all kinds of people telling us what they think and believe and what you told Joe about HIS conference about BJ back in April! Whew!
I have been taught that this is co-dependant behavior, but hey, who am I to judge?
What I will tell you is that apparantly BJ is only telling you and the other people she is grousing to; part of the story. She most certainly was told that that they would KINDLY prefer that she not use that word. She was also told WHY?
And even when BJ insisted that she could use any word she wanted to describe mothers who lost their children to adoption, she was asked if she would consider other words like natural or first mother, instead. She refused.
Mirah, can you refrain from speaking for everyone when you don't know the whole story? You keep telling us you don't speak for BJ, but you keep bringing it up. I have a headache from all the disjointed directions you keep trying to change your blog topic into. Since you're frustrated with all of us, is it at all possible that it's you who isn't grasping what's being said. YOu keep missing the point.
Weren't you also the one who accused illegit of not making intelligent comments? Interestingly enough, her logic and premise makes perfect sense to me.
Sure is alot of triangulating going on here..you are speaking for all kinds of people telling us what they think and believe and what you told Joe about HIS conference about BJ back in April! Whew!
I have been taught that this is co-dependant behavior, but hey, who am I to judge?
What I will tell you is that apparantly BJ is only telling you and the other people she is grousing to; part of the story. She most certainly was told that that they would KINDLY prefer that she not use that word. She was also told WHY?
And even when BJ insisted that she could use any word she wanted to describe mothers who lost their children to adoption, she was asked if she would consider other words like natural or first mother, instead. She refused.
Mirah, can you refrain from speaking for everyone when you don't know the whole story? You keep telling us you don't speak for BJ, but you keep bringing it up. I have a headache from all the disjointed directions you keep trying to change your blog topic into. Since you're frustrated with all of us, is it at all possible that it's you who isn't grasping what's being said. YOu keep missing the point.
Weren't you also the one who accused illegit of not making intelligent comments? Interestingly enough, her logic and premise makes perfect sense to me.
# posted by 
: 12:49 PM
: 12:49 PM
" There should be no pretending that the
guardians who care for and love a child are the 'real parents". They
are not parents..It would be understood that the child has parents but
the guardians are responsible for raising the child. Children have no
trouble understanding this."
Children do have trouble understanding how it is possible "TO HATE ONE AND LOVE ANOTHER" and how it is possible to "LOVE ONE AND HATE ANOTHER"
guardians who care for and love a child are the 'real parents". They
are not parents..It would be understood that the child has parents but
the guardians are responsible for raising the child. Children have no
trouble understanding this."
Children do have trouble understanding how it is possible "TO HATE ONE AND LOVE ANOTHER" and how it is possible to "LOVE ONE AND HATE ANOTHER"
# posted by : 4:21 PM
: 4:21 PM
When my baby was stolen for adoption I lost far more than my right to parent him. I lost my right to ever see him again, to ever know if he was dead or alive, to ever know where he was.
I lost his entire childhood and early adulthood.
The closed system rendered me and my child legally 'as if dead' to each other into perpetuity.
I lost his entire childhood and early adulthood.
The closed system rendered me and my child legally 'as if dead' to each other into perpetuity.
# posted by : 2:35 AM
: 2:35 AM
Well how could you? You are only interested in excusing the truth from your own experience of "loss".
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# posted by : 5:29 AM
: 5:29 AM << Home
